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 Help?, anyone...?

Deacon
post Apr 21 2004, 02:37 PM
Post #16


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Are we going to be at this all day? I have important things to do. I have to walk my Fish and flossing my cat's teeth. poke.gif

You nailed it on the head Ruggie... I'm jealous. I've always wanted a day glow computer that makes monkey noises.

You figured it out... Oh please, stop... I can't take it anymore... How can I live without a Mac? My life is so empty...

<Drugs wear off>

... what was I saying?

Oh yeah, what is your point here? Mac OS vs. Windows or Mac vs. PC? These are two unique arguments.

tongue.gif


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Ruggiero
post Apr 21 2004, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE(Deacon @ Apr 21 2004, 02:37 PM)
Mac OS vs. Windows or Mac vs. PC?  These are two unique arguments.

Are they really?

user posted image user posted image

Looks day glow to me....

bang.gif

Man... to quote good old Butch.... "I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."

Rugg

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Deacon
post Apr 21 2004, 04:17 PM
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Well, glad to see you didn't get the cute one... you stand half a chance in this debate.

I still think form over function with the Mac , as it relates to computing, is less than I'd prefer.

Also, OS vs Hardware is very important. As I said, what are we talking about here?

user posted image

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... one of my favorites! Come on... it's a wireless gateway... what is this crap supposed to be? tongue.gif

user posted image

Poor poor Ky... smile.gif He won't know what hit him in 56k land sad.gif


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Ruggiero
post Apr 21 2004, 05:01 PM
Post #19


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Seeing that hardware is completely useless without an OS, unless as a boat anchor (or in your case, a space-heater), you are screwed on both counts.

Let's see... should I compare a modern mac with a pc that came out in 1998? Specious to say the least. rolleyes.gif

Come on, deacon. you gotta have better juice than that.

--R

P.s. Macs are in MoMA's permanent collection. Not all in life is utility, mr. bentham.


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Deacon
post Apr 21 2004, 06:26 PM
Post #20


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QUOTE(Ruggiero @ Apr 21 2004, 05:01 PM)
Seeing that hardware is completely useless without an OS, unless as a boat anchor (or in your case, a space-heater), you are screwed on both counts.

Well Rugg, I thought you were smarter than that? tongue.gif I though you knew that x86 was one of the most support hardware platforms for Operating System providers.

Much of the performace testing equipment that I use is X86 based. With the right OS the X86 HW platform screams. The other platforms that I use are asics processors based... I can't recall anyone using a Mac for performace testing... maybe it takes too long for the Mac to draw a pretty picture when trying to generate 2.5 millions connections per second.

How many OSs can be easily installed on a Mac?
Mac OS
FreeBSD
NetBSD
OpenBSD - Maybe

How many OSs can be easliy installed on a PC?
WindowsXP
Windows2003
Linux - Redhat/Fedora Core
Linux - SUSE
Linux - etc.
Unix - FreeBSD
Unix - OpenBSD
Unix - NetBSD
Solaris
BeOS
etc... etc...

As I've told you before, Mac has some good points... but it is not a hands-down winner in any arena that I need a computer for.

So, Mr Rugg-a-rugg-rugg two ducks in a tub... if you want to argue RISC vs X86, we can do that. If you want to argue MacOS vs Windows, we can do THAT... though I would prefer to argue MacOS vs. Linux. I won't entertain an argument about MacOS vs X86 or vice versa... that is like compairing grapes to bath tubs... the two are just different.

I found this quote on TechTVs website:

QUOTE(TechTV)
Which is better, Mac or PC? This question will send Mac lovers and techies into heated discussions lasting days. Don't lose sleep over defending your system of choice, though. The fact is both systems serve different purposes for different users.


Macs are easy to use and are great with graphics. PCs are better for Servers and business based applications (unless you're an artist like Mr. Ruggieangilo)

Rugg prefers the first and I prefer the second. If I had to buy a computer for my wife or my parents, I would buy a Mac. If I had to buy a computer for me, my brother or a co-worker, I would buy a PC.

Computers are purpose build...

--Deacon


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Ruggiero
post Apr 21 2004, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE(Ruggiero @ Apr 21 2004, 05:01 PM)
Much of the performace testing equipment that I use is X86 based.  With the right OS the X86 HW platform screams.  The other platforms that I use are asics processors based... I can't recall anyone using a Mac for performace testing... maybe it takes too long for the Mac to draw a pretty picture when trying to generate 2.5 millions connections per second.


COUGH Dual 64-bit G5's COUGH


QUOTE
How many OSs can be easily installed on a Mac?
blah

How many OSs can be easliy installed on a PC?
blah
blah


OOOOH got me there.... except one notable exception: I have stinky-windows installed on my mac: I mapped Sublime 1 and 2 on it.

Also, with a little research I think you will find that you can install more than your little list on a mac... lots of linux/unixes, and also, of course, os 9 "classic" and X are installed concurrently on every mac. So, my machine currently has 3 os'es (and a fink-unix install that I deleted because it was beyond me) that I can run all at the same time.... and I am far from a professional user.


QUOTE
As I've told you before, Mac has some good points... but it is not a hands-down winner in any arena that I need a computer for.


And as we all know, Deacon is the true measure of humanity. wink.gif



QUOTE
So, Mr Rugg-a-rugg-rugg two ducks in a tub... if you want to argue RISC vs X86, we can do that.  If you want to argue MacOS vs Windows, we can do THAT... though I would prefer to argue MacOS vs. Linux.


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... huh?



QUOTE(TechTV)
Which is better, Mac or PC? This question will send Mac lovers and techies into heated discussions lasting days. Don't lose sleep over defending your system of choice, though. The fact is both systems serve different purposes for different users.


Right... true. Macs get things done at significantly lower cost per box over the lifetime of the box than pc's. And the OS doesn't crash.

PC's are for lemmings.



QUOTE
Macs are easy to use and are great with graphics.  PCs are better for Servers and business based applications (unless you're an artist like Mr. Ruggieangilo)


(you might add genetic research and mapping, astronomical and weather-modeling, music, and video in the mac column, as well)


QUOTE
Rugg prefers the first and I prefer the second.  If I had to buy a computer for my wife or my parents, I would buy a Mac.  If I had to buy a computer for me, my brother or a co-worker, I would buy a PC.


This is because you are a masochist at heart. (cf: your attraction to the business end of my saber)



QUOTE
Computers are purpose build...


All purpose has an associated aesthetic... and utility.

Rugg


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Deacon
post Apr 21 2004, 07:59 PM
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Gawd I hate when people break quotes up like that sad.gif

QUOTE
OOOOH got me there.... except one notable exception: I have stinky-windows installed on my mac: I mapped Sublime 1 and 2 on it.

Also, with a little research I think you will find that you can install more than your little list on a mac... lots of linux/unixes, and also, of course, os 9 "classic" and X are installed concurrently on every mac. So, my machine currently has 3 os'es (and a fink-unix install that I deleted because it was beyond me) that I can run all at the same time.... and I am far from a professional user.


I said easy to install. I've got a boat load of OS installations.

QUOTE
COUGH Dual 64-bit G5's COUGH


I'll let you know when I'm impressed... okay. tongue.gif

I have dual proc systems as well.... what do you want, a cookie? tongue.gif

Dual Proc Sun E250 for my server
HyperThreaded P4 3.0Ghz
Dual P3 733s

QUOTE
And as we all know, Deacon is the true measure of humanity.

I run Grid on my system... Right now my free CPU cycles are working towards finding a cure for Cancer... so I guess I'm not that horrible after all! tongue.gif

QUOTE
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... huh?


My point exactly... I commit to a real computer topic and all you want talk about is your Happy Meal PC... poke.gif

QUOTE
you might add genetic research and mapping, astronomical and weather-modeling, music, and video in the mac column, as well


Where is all that data stored? They use the Macs for the RISC processors (the dual G5 thingie you were talking about). They could do the same thing with a Sun or SGI server. Scentist are smart, but they often lack street smarts so you have to give them an easy to use system.

I work in a company that has hundreds of customers and several thousand servers... all different kinds... how many Macs? 0, none, zip, zilch, nada, goose eggs.

Do they make their web content on Macs? Probably... do they run it on a Mac? No, that would be silly.

Talk to me about a Mac when they allow rack-mount servers that are cost effective...

I'll take a quad zeon 3.4 Ghz system with 16 GB RAM for less than 10,000 anyday... $10,000... that could buy 3.5 Macs... and you still couldn't do anything with them.


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Ruggiero
post Apr 21 2004, 09:39 PM
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Did you forget about the supercomputer at virginia tech? What was it? 34d fastest IN THE WORLD? and cheapest by a factor of ten????

"System X is radically different from traditional, high-performance supercomputers. Unlike most, it is based on a “supercluster” of Power Mac G5 computers, each of which has 4GB of main memory, and 160GB of serial ATA storage. Not only is System X the world’s fastest, most powerful “home-built” supercomputer, it quite possibly has the cheapest price/performance of any supercomputer on the TOP500 list."

Sounds like your company needs to upgrade. smile.gif

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Ruggiero
post Apr 21 2004, 09:39 PM
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user posted image

user posted image


or the xserve?


user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

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Deacon
post Apr 21 2004, 10:27 PM
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Fastest home build... That nice. I have one word. Cray.

QUOTE
Sounds like your company needs to upgrade


All those Macs... looks like somebody didn't do a basic cost calculation on power consumption and rack space. The problem that I have with your image showing cost per gigaflop is that it only factored in the system cost. What about the support, facility and maintainance costs? Nope, I have to say that doing large scale system design for a living... if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Again... nice to know. Cool technology, but not very practical...

The drive shelf looks standard and you probably pay more for the Mac name than you would with any other drive shelf (the hard drive thingie wink.gif )

I'm still waiting to be impressed. tongue.gif


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Ruggiero
post Apr 21 2004, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE
I'm still waiting to be impressed.




.......................As are all beasts of burden who wear blinders.

cool.gif


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Deacon
post Apr 21 2004, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE
As are all beasts of burden who wear blinders


Ruggiero, you post editing little #@*()!@*()

I did appreciate the email you sent me though. Glad to see you're coming around.
QUOTE(Ruggiero @ Apr 22 2004, 09:59 AM)
Deacon,
You are right.

What was I thinking? I should have known better. The clear advantages of the X86 computing platform are evident from everything you said, and I am just being a stubborn, brainwashed ass who supports tired, cult-like companies who really don't care one whit about their users, the larger community as a whole or advancing technology in any substantive way that does not affect their bottom line.  All Apple cares about is making pretty computers.

I once was blind, but now I see.

Humbly,
Abjectly,
Apologetically,
Bit of a post editing #@*()

Ruggiero.


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Deacon
post Apr 22 2004, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE
beasts of burden


You mean asses? Just one question. Why again are all the Mac users wearing blinders?

Just wondering.

--Deacon


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Ruggiero
post Apr 22 2004, 12:00 PM
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Dying laughing.

ok. this is dissolving. I win.

Rugg


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Deacon
post Apr 22 2004, 12:02 PM
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biggrin.gif

That was kinda fun... sick and twisted, but fun

Did Ky ever get his TS working?

--Deacon


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